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[pidgeon]

Hi all.

What do you use for chronic pain? I have MS and have found that one of the things that helps is direct application of stinging nettles to sore areas. But, that only helps when they're out in their stinging glory.

Any other suggestions?

[chase]

Ai've read that a salve of Datura sp. was traditionally used in MS treatment. Dont blame me if it dont work though...

[pidgeon]

EEK!!! I've had thorn-apple before (recreationally when I was young and invincible). Not fun  Worst drug experience of my life. Almost 20 years after it happened I still remember it being extraordinarily unpleasant.

Perhaps the salve is different and less potent but the dose/response curve for datura isn't something I feel comfortable messing with.

[Willem]

I asked a magic tree what she thought:

"Here is the sticky situation: is the chronic pain due to MS, which then it is neurological and autoimmune and MS usually causes movement problems as well as painful ones, or from a past injury (sprain/strain), or from degenerative joint disease (both musculoskeletal)?  Knowing why and where the pain is stemming from is key.  However, general advice that you can give (because your not a doc) is... Cod liver oil (internally) shifts the cascade to anti-inflammatory (2 tsp 2 times a day),  if its more neurological a B-100 in the morning is helpful, the herbs in Zyflamend and Joint formula are anti-inflammatory and very helpful (but focus more on musculoskeletal and taken internally).  I can give you the rundown if you want.  Watch out for immune modulators with MS (its an auto-immune problem).  The topical Nettles interrupt the pain signals and topical capsicum can also do the same thing (hot, hot, hot).  Castor oil packs to the local area will help too with musculoskeletal problems.  Wow, huh.  that why advice without a history is tough.  You owe me $50 just for asking, but I will take it off your hide next time we box."

Huh. The magic tree kinda scared me with that last sentence.

[ozish]

Good luck with the pain thing.  I'm a tylenol slave for my pain as an allergy to aspirin really limits what I can take that's natural....aka almost nothing without the risk of anaphylactic shock in 60 minutes or less.  With knee arthritis for the last 14 years, and yes I'm only 26, it's interesting to say the least when it comes to pain management.

[heyvictor]

Prayer has helped me.

[yarrow dreamer]

at the risk of sounding like a broken record, acupuncture and massage? roll the shameless plug. . .

Personally, I've had acupuncture transform a chronic pain situation.

Massage doesn't make pain go away, but helps as a tool to manage it (Jeez I sound like a freaking commercial). Reducing stress/triggering relaxation can help cut down frequency/severity of autoimmune-type flare-ups and improve your sleep too. Plus you can do it for yourself, or maybe a friend or loved one can help you out?

Datura = jimson weed, yes? Sounds frightening. I never realized folks use that for MS.

[heyvictor]

Yes, acupuncture has helped me with pain management as well.

[pidgeon]

I've done both. Acupuncture didn't help and massage had only moderate temporary relief. Bee stings theoretically are supposed to help but... of course... I'm allergic to bees.

Besides, I talk to bees and wouldn't want them to die just so I can get some pain relief for a disease caused by human stupidity.

[Willem]

I really recommend finding a competent and insightful magic tree of your own. Preferably a human one who can take your history into account when looking at your pain issues. Avoid MD's. If you find a good, competent naturopath you've really lucked out.

[grog]

Pidgean,  how does your body react to movement, stretching, lite excercise, yoga and strenuos excercise. These help me loads along with "good fats" and high antioxidant diet. But I jus suffer from joint/muscle pain/stiffness. And for alergies grape seed extraxt does wonders.

"good fats"
fresh ground flax and chia and hemp seed meal
virgin coconut oil
cold water fish body oil(from canned sardines and wild salmon  or fish oil caps)
grass fed butter
raw grass fed whole milk
grass fed beef
range fed pork*
high omega 3 eggs
extra virgin olive oil

[skalopsky j. nettles]

it depends on your personal case. my experience with MS (via patients - not me personally) is that there are underlying deficiencies and emotions. that is where i would start.

fyi tylenol is a very potent hepato toxin and leads to many deaths

[chase]

Not to take the topic in a different direction.. Ai just feel that careless use of an extremely valuabel plant (datura) has unfairly repulsed some people into not ever having a relationship with it. The power, usefullness, and prevalency of use of solanine and atropine (the two most prevalent active chemicals) as medicinals is perhaps only surpassed by cannabinoids historically. The great pain-killing effects of these plants has been verified, though not by me (lab-conditions of some kind.. or something )and atropene is still used by modern day optometrists, though ai forget how. (as a side note - responsibel people have, for centuries and all across the globe, used Datura and related Brugmansia genous species for hallucinogenic and religious use. Second note - If this sounds overly emotional, sorry. Ai tend to overreact to harsh criticism of my plant friends. If it doesnt, then aim imroving  . Let me know)

[grog]

Not to take the topic in a different direction.. Ai just feel that careless use of an extremely valuabel plant (datura) has unfairly repulsed some people into not ever having a relationship with it. The power, usefullness, and prevalency of use of solanine and atropine (the two most prevalent active chemicals) as medicinals is perhaps only surpassed by cannabinoids historically. The great pain-killing effects of these plants has been verified, though not by me (lab-conditions of some kind.. or something )and atropene is still used by modern day optometrists, though ai forget how. (as a side note - responsibel people have, for centuries and all across the globe, used Datura and related Brugmansia genous species for hallucinogenic and religious use. Second note - If this sounds overly emotional, sorry. Ai tend to overreact to harsh criticism of my plant friends. If it doesnt, then aim imroving  . Let me know)

sounded objective enough for me

[chase]

After some serching, ai've also found that Mexican Tarragon (Tagetes lucida) and Wolfsbane (Aconitum lycoctonum) are anaesthetics. You might try those...