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[Peter Bauer]

Hey folks.

So lately I've been kind of wondering what direction to take this site.

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the primitive skills side of the forum, and I dislike the doom and gloom collapse talk.

I haven't been around here in a while for that reason, trying to figure out how to perhaps change the site around to encourage more discussions on above ground actions that we can take right now to create a culture of rewilding. The primitive skills are easy to learn with friends; smash a bunch of rocks together. There are also two other forums focused on primitive skills with thousands more members and threads on that. Why not just go there?

The collapse talk seems to really go no where other than to validate our concerns but it doesn't really move forward. I created this site because I no longer need validation. I get it. What's next?

My point is... What can you (we) do right now to create a local culture of rewilding? That's really the purpose of this site; discussing the that make rewilding unique to primitive skills or permaculture and then acting on it.

I'm going to re-new the site for a year (wish more people would donate) and revamp/change things a bit. I'm wondering what other peoples thoughts are on how to make this site more about creating cultural change? Thanks!

[chase]

Maybe some people need the validation? Maybe not everyone is as far along as all that? Ai donno, maybe youre right.

[nusabo]

I personally, and doubtless many others, need to work on improving my social skills and communication. If I become a more outgoing person I will at least be able to tell people about rewilding and get the message out there. It will also help organizing efforts. Other community-oriented projects I've worked on in the past have relied heavily on parliamentary (blech) or consensus approaches to discussion & decision-making. Rewilding doesn't strike me as something that would be done by committee. I considered getting a guerrilla gardening co-op together in the town I currently live in, but I'll only be here a few more days. Hopefully once I'm settled in my new town I will be able to get something started. Another challenge is that many cities in this era of late civilization have very few authentic communities to speak of.

As far as this website goes, I think it needs a top-down approach. Currently we have a forum with people from all over discussing things in a more or less universalistic manner. The wiki has the skeleton of N. American bioregions and some local stuff pertaining to the Pacific NW. I guess the first step would be to flesh out the bioregional stuff and then move on to specific localities. I'd offer tp help but I should probably learn something about bioregions first.

[timeLESS]

Hey scout! i think I understand what you're sayin' and i agree that things could do with a little change. First though im gonna just post a different perspective. I wanted to post on how i agree and how i don't but one side of me will have to wait, because i have to be off to work. 


So lemme throw out why I don't first, you know, just to get that out of the way.


I know the feeling of having read all the arguments on a subject (civ crash in this instance) and thinking " yeah yeah i know it already, move on!"  Yet not everyone knows what you know and especially the new people that join the forum might want find it nice to "vent" a bit. Doom and Gloom indeed maybe has its place,  but i do think the focus needs to lie elsewhere. as i think you suggest.

On the "Skills" section. I think it doesnt hurt to have. People feel safe and accepted here. Why not ask your questions at a place you feel accepted? instead of moving to a new forum where you know their take on your question possibly comes from a different angle. Hmm i just dont see how it could hurt. Again it doesnt need to be the focus of what happens here and frankly i don't feel it is. Its an extra. 

Last point. ATM I think people see this is as a social gathering point more then anything else. a tribe if you will. Coming here to socialize, talk, get some reasurrance, or just tell their stories, getting a nice response from people for change for feeling the way they do. I dunno this is just a hunch and involves much of my own experience.
 

More agreable thoughts when i get home from work!

take care

[incendiary_dan]

Personally, I tend to find the collapse section a mood lifter.  But that's just me.

The networking and getting people together are definitely the most important things, I think.  Talking and talking about rewilding, while important, won't create the new culture(s) we want to see.  It's why I created my Yahoo! group.  The skills, philosophy, and other sections all have their place, and I much prefer to learn things here than on other sites.  I think we just need to find more ways to promote networking through the site.

[timeLESS]

I have tried to give it some thought today at work, but my thoughts arent very productive. Maybe im not yet quite sure what it is you are asking?

Reading your post again, i get the feeling you want Local Change, of which i think this forum can only be a VERY small contributing factor (of all possible things you could do at home.)

The forum brings people together from all over the globe. It seems hard to use this platform for " local  change " . I guess we each have to struggle locally.


Im just not sure that i have a solid idea of what kinda things you want out of this change, so im unsure about any suggestions.

Do you want to make a place that yields more " tangible " results (locally)? 
 

I have some vague ideas that might interest you but id rather hear your and other people's thoughts on the direction desired first

[anti_]

Personally, I tend to find the collapse section a mood lifter.  But that's just me.

Aye. I'm with you there.

But I do see where you are coming from there Urb.

I feel still that all of the collapse/DIY stuff is still very important to Rewilding on a more in depth side.

Maybe we could have a "rewilding at your supermarket" style flavor to the top of the forums, to help ease people into some of the ideas behind it...

"Rewilding on your way to work"... etc... reminding people to look into their surroundings etc...


an idea non-the-less


Dylan

[nusabo]

Personally, I tend to find the collapse section a mood lifter.  But that's just me.

I third the sentiment. I'm reassured that people besides civ-sedated survivalists and nihilistic doomsayers are thinking about collapse and preparing for it. Plus thinking about collapse really puts whatever minor daily defeats and successes I may have into better perspective.

[clicketyclack]

this is the only primitive skills site i use, basically because i want advice and info from people who i can assume are at least trying to break out of the civ mindset. i find it very valuable, even if i haven't been on the internet much lately.

[GardenEarth]

Greetings Scout, Nice to meet you.

I'm a Noob here, so if I say something that sets anyone off, let me apologize in advance. PM me and we'll work it out.

A case for ranting, is made very eloquently here:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/talkitout.html

Evidently, there truly is a substantial therapeutic value to venting. This is a good thing

That being said, I have to say, ranting about what's wrong without exploring and taking action towards solutions seems not only useless, but destructive, and has discouraged me from becoming active in this forum.

I was very excited when I discovered your blog, and saw what you have done towards promoting the concept of ReWilding. Love your videos, love that you have built and maintained a blog, a forum and a wiki. Love that you have had the courage to move out into the community and speak publicly.

That you are proactive, that you are putting your money and your energy towards this cause that you believe in is very inspiring,  and is worthy of the highest respect and gratitude. Thank you for giving so much!

I would like to suggest the addition of a regular practice to be added to the forum:

Once the venting about a particular issue is complete, I'd like to suggest a further step - let's explore and build a vision for how we want things to be - what we want to create instead.

I find when I follow up my rants by exploring this, very quickly I find myself discovering there are things to do - places to go, people to talk to.

Maybe Scout, you can explore your own process - how you move from your anger, frustration and disillusionment with "civ" into the action of visioning, communicating and building the world you want to live in, then share it with us. Teach us. Reorganize this forum to reflect that process.

Not sure how everyone else feels about this, I can speak only for myself. Such a reorganization would not only keep me coming back, but would encourage me to share ReWilding with everyone I know.

[Starving.Wolf]

Howdey, US --

It seems to me that it might be a reasonable first-step to simply re-arrange the order of the forum, and place the things you'd like to see less emphasis on at the bottom of the page, and more emphasis toward the top.  For example, you mentioned that you'd like to see less of the gloom-and-doom a-la "Civilizations Collapse", but it's the first thing that anyone sees when they visit the site, because it's in the top 5 topics.

Also, I remember a conversation a while ago where you had considered changing and re-arranging the social topics to encompass broader and less-hierarchical terms ("All My Relations" springs to mind, but I can't recall the context off the top of my head).

Anyway -- thems my two cents.  And thanks!

~SW

[Peter Bauer]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why the site has made me feel uncomfortable for a while...

My number one reason why I don't care to hear about the economic/energy collapse because I don't care. It has little to do with actual rewilding. Those events in themselves don't signify the collapse of civilization, just a mini-collapse. I plan to rewild whether the collapse intensifies more in my lifetime or not. The collapse, while convenient to rewilding in someways and inconvenient in others has little bearing on my choice to rewild. Civilization enslaves us, I want to break free of that, regardless of collapse. These events definitely inform me on decisions I should make regarding rewilding, so I see there place... however, I feel they attract a certain "doomer" type of person to this site and it feels kinda swamped with that energy now. It takes away from the real discussions about rewilding that I want to have happening here. It feels like these discussions, because they take away from rewilding discussions on a forum about rewilding, re-define rewilding as a doom and gloom community. Rewilding is not about the abuse in and around the prison, it's about the escape plan and the escape and the building something new. This is my story at least and how I feel here. I don't mind having them here, but I think I may move them to the humanure bucket. Make sense to me; composting the collapsing culture? Might be a more appropriate place to put them. I don't know.

I also have to say that all these discussions about various civilized religions bore the shit out of me. This makes me irritated because I feel like most of the conversations we had here in the first year were all really constructive/on the same page kinds of conversations. I feel like maybe the defending of this or that civilized religion reflects mostly people un-willingness to let go of and perhaps lack of researching the domesticating actions of those religions. I also recognize that myths change to reflect the environment so as collapse intensifies those myths may incorporate an animist world view. However, I don't know if this site is the place to talk about that? I mean, there is a special sub-culture of Rock and Roll called Christian Rock... and I don't listen to it. I don't know if I want those religions conversations to dominate the forum...? Again, it all feels like it takes away from the real skills of rewilding; providing the cultural tools to create social networks of rewilding. Again I see that if you want to convince a christian that their religion "really" mean something else about rewilding, that's fine. But to me rewilding isn't about philosophically convincing someone about the ills of domestication; it's about showing them. It's about connecting to people (regardless of religion) on a human level. It's about connecting to the land on an animal level. A language older than words has more power than words. You know? I feel like we were really on a roll with some of those social tools here in the beginning and it sort of dropped off at some point. This makes me sad. I want to make space for all these other topics, but I want to shift the focus back to these non-denominational, non-doomer, cultural tools.

[feralphilosopher]

I'm fairly new to the site, and therefore I can't specifically address whether or not I liked an earlier direction in which the conversations were going since I wasn't a participant in those conversations (nor have I read all of the previous posts.) But what I can contribute to this thread are my own ideas about what motivated me to start reading (and eventually posting) on the site. While I think there is a place for the doom and gloom conversations to an extent, I frankly would not have bothered to continue to read nor would I have been motivated to start posting simply for the doom and gloom conversations. Like Urban Scout, I already gave up on civilization and have seen that civilization is the problem. Therefore, it's no surprise when one disaster after another occurs within and/or because of civilization. I certainly can see the therapeutic value in some doom and gloom conversation, and I do my fair share of participating in those conversations. But that's not why I'm interested in this site. For me it's about the community. I've felt isolated and like the lone freak for a long time. For years I've told all my friends about my plans to live in a hut in the woods, and no one, not a single person, has ever said "me too" or "I understand". I've just gotten strange looks. Finding a community of people who get it is a real gift. Now, the question is, does this community go beyond the virtual? Do we actually use this virtual community to bring our ideas into the real world? That is what I would like to see. I don't like civilization. But I like community. I used to think I'd enjoy living in my hut without any other humans, kept company just by the trees and the earth and the birds and the rabbits, etc. But these days I realize I want humans with me too. My question then is can we utilize this virtual community to bring together people to actually start living our rewilding talk? Can we actually support one another in the real world to step outside of civilization? That would be what I'd like to see. I'm not just talking about workshops or hanging out (though those things are well and fine too.) I'm talking about actually going for our dreams.

[incendiary_dan]

Now, the question is, does this community go beyond the virtual? Do we actually use this virtual community to bring our ideas into the real world? That is what I would like to see. I don't like civilization. But I like community. I used to think I'd enjoy living in my hut without any other humans, kept company just by the trees and the earth and the birds and the rabbits, etc. But these days I realize I want humans with me too. My question then is can we utilize this virtual community to bring together people to actually start living our rewilding talk? Can we actually support one another in the real world to step outside of civilization? That would be what I'd like to see. I'm not just talking about workshops or hanging out (though those things are well and fine too.) I'm talking about actually going for our dreams.

Then post on Rewild New England, already!

Hehehe, sorry for the shameless promotion, but it seemed like a good way to start.  I've been thinking more about this, and I'm starting to see that this site should function like a nexus, or a hub.  We can use it as a base, to record our efforts and give each other advice and tutorials, and to link up to other sites for more local stuff.  This is what I was thinking, somewhat, when I started the Yahoo! group for the New England area.  We can do networking and event planning locally, but also keep track of what our comrades in other regions are doing.  It's not only encouraging to know about what our friends are doing, but we can also steal each others' ideas

As for the collapse stuff, I say we move it to a less immediately visible place.  It's interesting stuff, for sure, but it's not as important as actual philosophy, social skills, and all that other fun stuff.  Basically, shove it in a corner somewhere.

[timeLESS]

Perhaps this issue is tied to Anthropik no longer being active?  


Somethings come to mind

-Post the things you wanna discuss. Be the change and all that stuff...  
-Feature topics / Articles  is it possible to post that kindof stuff somewhere?
-Topic of the Week/ Planned Discussion Subjects with in-depth material  
-Collective Projects Lets DO something together!
-Local / bioregional forums ? I think not enough people for this?
-Renaming Civ Collapse to Our Indigenous Future or something else that shifts the focus from the Doom & Gloom of ending a life we know, to the possibilities of a life we get to invent. It is not the end of a world, its only the beginning.  
-Id totally like different names for the topics. Stories by Campfire, Other then human persons, and so on....

take care