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Messages - jason

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1
Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance / Re: 2012?
« on: March 22, 2009, 03:57:37 PM »
The Mayans don't believe and never said that 2012 marks the end of the world, anymore than the equinox marks the end of the world. It marks the end of a great cycle--but that just means the beginning of a new one. A change in the season. I expect changes about as big as comes with a solstice--things we'll recognize as momentous in hindsight, but a lot of disappointed hippies at the stroke of midnight.

2
Rewild Camps, Events & Meet-ups / Three Rivers Rewild Camp
« on: March 22, 2009, 03:55:59 PM »
Very early preparation now underway. Live in or near western Pennsylvania? Updates as they become available.

3
The Fifth World definitely needs artists!

http://thefifthworld.com

We're trying to create an open source, shared setting, envisioning the world 400 years from now, a rewilded world. Inspired in large part by Michael Green's Afterculture project. We especially want copyleft, Creative Commons-licensed illustrations, so anything you can contribute will be most appreciated!

4
Media Reviews & Recommendations / Re: Must-see Media, IMHO
« on: December 22, 2008, 03:45:21 PM »
Unfortunately, The Education of Little Tree is a hoax written by a white supremacist with almost nothing authentically Cherokee in it, and is generally despised by actual Cherokee.  Giuli wrote a really thorough article about all this a while back, called "The Fabrication of Little Tree."

5
Social Technology / Re: [Fifth World] Cool character options
« on: December 02, 2008, 05:08:17 PM »
Nice ideas.  I already had taken a lot of inspiration from the stories of Wayland Smith, with people who could work bog iron as some of the most rare and venerated of wizards, but this definitely expands that with some interesting directions.

6
Grief & Praise / Re: The Rewilding LOLCAT
« on: November 24, 2008, 02:57:18 PM »
I think Looney Tunes has done more to foster animism than you'd think.  Type in "animism" on Google, and you'll mostly find articles from teachers trying to figure out how they can finish extinguishing it, and according to them, something like Looney Tunes (and yes, lolcats) keeps that flicker alive no matter how hard they try to squash it.

I honor anything that can keep the embers going in the darkest hour of the night, myself.

7
Social Technology / [Fifth World] Cool character options
« on: November 23, 2008, 07:42:20 PM »
Early playtesting for my game, The Fifth World, has gone pretty well.  The main thing missing right now, I think, lies with cool character options.  This means a lot for any game, of course, but it goes double for this game.  Most of the time, when you hear, "feral tribes living after the collapse of civilization," you think of a desperate, miserable place.  But my entire goal with this project involves presenting a hopeful vision for the future, where life has gotten better.  I want a game that makes people excited about the possibilities the future really holds, not just in terms of the expansion of technology, but in the expansion of community.  I took a lot of inspiration from Michael Green's Afterculture, and he includes on that page:

Quote
The truth is that for the first time we are bereft of a positive vision of where we are going. This is particularly evident among kids. Their future is either Road Warrior post-apocalypse, or Blade Runner mid-apocalypse. All the futuristic computer games are elaborations of these scenarios, heavy metal worlds where civilization has crumbling into something weird and violent (but more exciting than now).

The Afterculture is an attempt to transmute this folklore of the future into something deep and rich and convincingly real. If we are to pull a compelling future out of environmental theory and recycling paradigms, we are going to have to clothe the sacred in the romantic. The Afterculture is part of an ongoing work to shape a new mythology by sources as diverse as Thoreau and Conan and Dances with Wolves and Iron John. The Afterculture is not "against" the problems of our times, and its not about "band-aid solutions" to the grim jam we find ourselves in. It's about opening up a whole new category of solutions, about finding another way of being: evolved, simpler, deeper, even more elegant. Even more cool. Even very cool.

So, the challenge of "being cool" stands as a pretty tall order for this project, and I think Michael Green set a pretty high standard that I'll have to live up to.  But I could use some help.  Does anybody have some ideas for cool character concepts that could live in the Fifth World?

I'll kick things off with some of the things I have in already that I think look pretty cool:

  • The Arcanists.  Before civilization ended, we did create nanobots: powered by solar energy and run by artificial intelligence.  Unfortunately, the AI didn't always reproduce without errors, and they began to grow without limit.  One of the original programmers has survived for 400 years, known in obscure legends only as "the Grand Arcanist," he founded the Ordo Arcanum.  Only they know about the nanobots.  Only they know how they once proliferated to the point of nearly wiping out all life on earth, before the Grand Arcanist learned how to keep up with their mutations.  The Arcanists keep an eternal vigil on the ever-mutating nanobots now.  The little machines give them seemingly magical powers which they summon by spoken commands, but the constant mutation has made those commands an English-derived gibberish.  They roam the world as the unsung heroes keeping back one of the last legacies of civilization.
  • The Cult of the Fleshmongers.  Somewhere between transhumanists, plastic surgery, and self-mutilation, you'll find one of the Fifth World's worst groups of bad guys.  They generally lament the passing of the old world, and hope to restore humanity to its proper place—as living gods separated from the filth of other life, fit to judge who should live and who should die.  To do so, they seek to restore the perfection of the human form to its godlike state, which they pattern, as often as not, on mannequins.  The Fleshmongers perform hideous rituals to mold their victims into their twisted vision of divine "beauty."
  • The Undertaker.  In the first land I developed, the Land of the Three Rivers, the Undertaker follows a buzzard familiar.  He doesn't stay with a particular family, but instead roams the land.  The buzzard leads him when death is close, where the people will need him.  Wherever he goes, death soon follows.  He performs last rites, comforts the bereaved, buries the dead, and from time to time, settles restless ghosts

8
Quote from: wildeyes
But in terms of hypothesizing how these technologies will influence folks in the unfolding depression, I don't know what about our criticism does not seem reasonable. I don't know what about it would put off potential rewilders.

Well, if I read you right, you seem to say that since these things don't have any rewilding content, that it won't help promote rewilding at all.  And furthermore, these things "cripple many aspects of sociability," including the ability of the young to talk to the old.  Do you mean by that, that young people used to have a great rapport with the older generation, before MySpace and Facebook ruined that?  Many newspapers regularly reprint a letter about how "kids these days" have no morals, don't know how to live right, and so on; you find the "zinger" only at the end, when you see that Aristotle wrote it in ancient Greece.  Kids have had a hard time talking to the older generation ever since the Neolithic Mortality Crisis dropped life expectancy into the mid-twenties and the agricultural world became Lord of the Flies.  I think in a lot of profound ways, we've spent the past 10,000 years dealing with that intense trauma.  I fail to see where any website could really have any kind of impact on that, positive or negative.

Except insofar as relationships with the older generation have suffered as a subset of relationships as a whole.  We feel increasingly isolated.  They've studied this and seen that your modern American has fewer relationships with anyone, older or younger, than ever before.  So this doesn't involve a trade-off between real, flesh-and-blood relationships vs. shallow, online ones; it involves shallow online relationships vs. no relationships at all.  And in fact, increasingly, social networking doesn't involve shallow online relationships (like the ones, ironically enough, fostered by shared-interest web fora like this), but a supplement to real, flesh-and-blood ones.  You follow people you know in real life on Twitter.  You become friends on Facebook with people you hang out with.  It becomes a way to keep in touch, like Giuli said; a way to keep constant tabs on each other, to read what each of you thinks and feels.  Ever read a deeply personal LiveJournal entry and think, "What makes this person think total strangers would want to read something so personal?"  You feel vaguely like a voyeur--because you've acted like one.  They don't use it like a newspaper to publish their inner-most thoughts to strangers; they use it as a conversation in a crowded public space, and just like leaning in too close on such a conversation, reading an entry like that feels like eavesdropping because it really involves the same violation.  I agree with Giuli, it seems almost like tribal preschool in a lot of ways.  Insofar as these things help people form relationships at all, they help us become better able to relate to the older generation, too.  (Frankly, in my own experience, the difficulty in forming relationships with older people has generally come from their contempt and condescension.)

But how it would put-off potential rewilders ... well, I think if you meet someone who knows what "rewilding" means and views it favorably, you might as well move on because that one's OK already.  We make up such a vanishingly small fringe of a fringe that it seems silly to expect rewilding to triumph from everyone consciously embracing it.  But rewilding also points to the human default.  When people form closer communities and stronger relationships, when they restore the social focus of their lives, they rewild.  They may not call it that, but they do it, nonetheless.  Therein lies my sole hope for rewilding's success: that you don't need to know how to do it, in order to do it.  Most people will rewild entirely by accident.

But discussions like this seem incredibly self-righteous to me.  This and that and that sully and contaminate; it seems to condescend to anyone who does or uses this or that or that, telling them they've "sinned" and become polluted, and need to become pure ("like me," they inevitably hear, whether you say it or mean it or not).  That describes how I read it, and I know others would, as well.

Quote from: Brian
When I think of pacification of the "desperately lonely", I think of other more distracting and entertaining mediums like T.V., youtube, and games like World of Warcraft.

My employer gives me a budget to go to conferences and such, and I recently got back from one, where I attended a session on virtual worlds, particularly World of Warcraft, led by a woman who did a two-year ethnographic study of WoW players.  She noted that WoW became for them what the pub became for Englishmen, or the men's hut in so many tropical tribes: the "third place" safe for socialization.  It became a way to foster relationships with people.  And did it take away from family dinners, or school work?  No, according to the data, the time kids spent playing WoW came out of the time they would otherwise have spent watching TV.  So instead of watching TV, they formed spent time with people.  I know I never touched WoW, personally, until one of my best friends moved out to California, and it became the main means by which we could continue our relationship.  So I really think WoW belongs more with Facebook or MySpace than TV.  I wouldn't trade my time face-to-face with my friend for equal time in WoW, but given that or no contact at all, I really don't see how my time in WoW indicates that I've undercut my flesh-and-blood relationships.

Quote from: Brian
Where there used to be more emphasis on the isolated nuclear family and the ability to "show off" your way of life ( house, car, family.... whatever) there is now more emphasis on social groups of friends who are more adept at just "hanging out."

Agreed.  Yes, we have much to take alarm from, but from time to rare time, things genuinely do get better!

Quote from: Brian
I wouldn't expect this to lead to tribalism (except in our cases) , but I can see it as leading to a less socially isolated "depression" for most people.  I just can't imagine that all these connected friends would let their friend networks dissapear just because the technology is gone.

Well, what do you mean by "tribes"?  If they don't give up that social interaction just because the technology dies, and they start to pull together, what else would you call that?

Quote from: Dan
But sadly, I have known plenty of people who confuse their online friends with real friendship.  I've known plenty of people who will ignore real socializing in person, going out with their friends and such, to chat online or something similar.  It might not be the usual behavior, but I also don't think it's entirely uncommon.

I can't say I've ever met anyone like that.  I've seen them as outliers on studies, but I've never met them.  The data says they occur very rarely, about as rarely as people who get addicted to anything else.  And in our society, you can find plenty of reasons to seek out a good, solid addiction.

9
There's criticism that empowers, and criticism that shuts down any positive action, though.  Anything half-done will serve to simply pacify people, but simply leaving it at that discourages people from ever trying anything.  It's Zeno's paradox: you have to get half-way before you can get all the way there, so if you discourage people from ever getting half-way, then you've discouraged them from ever trying.

10
Calling it a toxic mimic certainly sounds like a pretty harsh judgment to me, but I really think it's more of a crutch.  We have crippling social isolation in the modern world, and it has very little to do with our choices as individuals.  The structure of our society drives us apart.  Insofar as social networking sites allow us to have any contact with each other at all, they improve over no contact whatsoever.  I don't know anyone who mistakes them for real relationships, just like no one mistakes walking on crutches for walking normally, but it offers the best some people have right now.  And insofar as that holds true, it provides a basis.  Rather than damning it for its incompleteness, I'd rather embrace what this trend gets right as a way to help people push farther.

11
Would you call crutches a toxic mimic of walking, too?  How do you get a cause happening after the effect?  People have gotten more socially isolated for decades now, not since MySpace, LinkedIn, or Facebook appeared.  These things have gained popularity precisely because people feel isolated, and because when you feel that isolated you'll take whatever you can get.  At its best, something like Twitter helps people spend more time with flesh-and-blood people out in the real world: you feel bored, you can see a friend of yours has gone to a coffee shop, so you can go to that coffee shop and hang out with your friend.

I don't know anybody who confuses a MySpace "friend" with a genuine friend. I might have 9,000 friends on MySpace, but of course, only a small number of those might involve real friendships.  If you want to look at something that undermines real relationships, look at cell phones and "continuous partial attention" [1, 2].

My mother always told me, you can't take away someone's crutches unless you'll stick by them and teach them to walk again.  And in that, I have to say, it angers me a bit to read this kind of harsh  judgment of people who feel so desperately lonely.  No, they don't have a lot of real relationships, in most cases.  Most of us feel too isolated for that.  But they can feel a little less isolated, if only with shallow, online relationships, through things like this.  It makes a desperately isolated world just a little less isolated, and you want to judge that because it doesn't solve the answer completely?  I find that just a little perverse.

12
Common Misconceptions / Re: Quinnian population dynamics
« on: October 22, 2008, 03:57:12 PM »
Exactly the point.

13
Common Misconceptions / Re: Quinnian population dynamics
« on: October 22, 2008, 03:00:45 PM »
Well, rather than repeat myself, I'll simply copy and paste from the article in question:

Quote from: Me
All of this, however, is theoretical. This hypothesis is easy to test: calculate carrying capacity, and compare it to actual human population numbers. This is precisely what Russell Hopfenberg of Duke University did in his 2003 study, “Human Carrying Capacity is Determined by Food Availability.” [PDF] As you might imagine from such a title, he found that the numbers lined up almost perfectly.

There is a significant complication in this, however, which critics of this stance are eager to point out. The First World is facing a population growth decline–the world’s richest nations are growing by the smallest percentages. Italy has been very concerned with its low growth rate, only 0.11% according to a 2003 estimate. Italy has the 201st highest population growth, and the 100th highest agricultural growth. Meanwhile, Singapore has the sixth highest population growth rate, and the 147th highest agricultural growth rate–out of 147.

If population is a function of food supply, why is the most significant growth taking place in those areas producing the least food?

The answer, I think, lies in globalization. How much of what you ate today came from your own bioregion? Unless you do a significant amount of your grocery shopping at Farmers’ Markets or eat only USDA-certified organic food, probably not a lot. In 1980, the average piece of American fresh produce was estimated to have traveled 1,500 miles before it was consumed. Interestingly, those same countries which produce so much food but don’t see it translate into their population, are also the heaviest exporters, and the impoverished countries with significantly rising growth rates are often the recipients. When the First World rushes in with foreign aid, food, and humanitarian aid to a desert area in the midst of a famine, we serve to prop up an unsustainable population. That drives a population boom in an area that already cannot support its existing population. The result is a huge population dependent on outside intervention that itself cannot be indefinitely sustained. Eventually, that population will crash once outside help is no longer possible–and the years of aid will only make that crash even more severe. In the same way that the United States’ policy of putting out all forest fires in the 1980s led to an even worse situation in its forests, our benevolence and good intentions have paved the way to a Malthusian hell.

Another part of the answer lies in our ecological footprint. In the passage above, Garrett Hardin made the distinction between the calories it takes to maintain a human body, and the “work calories” humans use to do anything else. While it is certainly true that population is a function of food supply, standard of living–how many work calories we recieve, in addition to mere maintenance–is an important factor in that equation. Not only how much food is available, but how much food each individual demands. The dwindling First World has the largest ecological footprint; the growing Third World has the smallest. Italy comes in at #25 with 5.51 hectares per person (1996); Somalia is #114 with 0.97.

This is ultimately why education appears to have an effect on population: because higher education raises the standard of living, increasing the ecological footprint so that fewer people can live off the same amount of food, reducing the population. However, the problem we face is not one of Malthusian catastrophe. If we could not feed our population, we would not have such a population in the first place. The problem is the ecological consequences of such resource exploitation. Expanding ecological footprints do nothing to lessen this. Also, this trend can only continue so far, because the First World needs the Third. Our prosperity comes from the triumph of the corporate model, but the corporation itself runs on externalized costs. Our economy could never function if we had to pay the full and total cost for the luxuries we enjoy. Consider simply our oil costs–never mind the way it is built in to, say, our food. The Arab population oppressed under Saudi rule pays the balance for our cheap oil. Low prices at WalMart are made possible by cheap Third World labor. It is a grim economic reality that, given ten apples and ten people, for one person to have nine apples, the other nine must split one between them. In the conclusion to their 1996 study on ecological footprint, Wackernagel and Rees stated, “If everybody lived like today’s North Americans, it would take at least two additional planet Earths to produce the resources, absorb the wastes, and otherwise maintain life-support.” Since we have but one earth, this conclusion can also be spun around in the form that each of us essentially has three slaves whose existence is one of constant misery for our benefit.

14
Common Misconceptions / Re: Quinnian population dynamics
« on: October 22, 2008, 04:41:43 AM »
Well, in point of fact, people in India and China do work less hours than Americans, on average.  But I've written elsewhere that trying to separate the U.S. or India or China as independent populations in an interdependent, globalized economy is about as silly as examining medieval British nobility as a population distinct from medieval British peasantry.  We have plenty of means of shifting the wealth to one sector and the cost to another, which is something we've perfected since the Roman Empire.  The fact that global human population has always adhered to global food supply spells that out rather clearly.  The differences between different countries when every country trades with and relies upon all the others is just silly.

15
Common Misconceptions / Re: Quinnian population dynamics
« on: October 21, 2008, 05:21:53 PM »
This follows from the misconception that population limited by lack of food implies starving animals.  Rabbits are not by any means the only animals that produce to the limits of their carrying capacity.  Every farmer knows that you can control the size of your cow herd, your chicken flock, your horse herd, indeed, any animal population, just by increasing or decreasing the feed you supply.

It doesn't take anything nearly as drastic as starvation for food supply to check population.  Female fertility depends on sufficient fat stores, so even just "getting by" can make the female of most species infertile.  Fertility has evolved with a hair trigger for good reason: to try to ensure that babies come into a world of relative abundance, at least from birth.

But even that marks one of the more extreme mechanisms.  Consider: if you have to spend more time looking for food, then you have greater stress, which again reduces fertility.  You also have less time for sex, and even less energy for sex.  This applies to humans, too.  It's no coincidence that over-worked, over-stressed Americans have created such a huge market for Viagra and Cialis, after all.  That's generally all it takes to depress reproduction rates, which decreases population growth and ultimately population.

Starvation is only the most extreme way by which food supply controls population.  It only gets to that point after a great many things have gone wrong.

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